Parable of the conversation with an atheist.

I had a dream the other night that I would like to share. I was in that in between state when you are aware of yourself and yet you are dreaming. You know it is a dream yet it still feels real. In my dream I was in a room full of men. All of us were listening to one teacher who was teaching from behind a podium.

The man asked a question. What would you do if questioned about you belief in God by an atheist?

I stood up and answered with this parable. Part of this conversation that I shared in my dream, actually happened in a conversation that I was apart of years ago, and part of it is all fiction. I am not entirely sure why I had this dream, its significance, or why this is the response I gave. But I felt compelled to share it with all of you.

In this dream I started by stating that I was going to tell a parable about a conversation with an atheist.

An atheist once approached a man and asked him if he believed in a higher power. The man responded and said of course I do. Don’t you? I believe in the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. I believe that God sent His one and only begotten Son and His name is Yeshua (Jesus).

The atheist responded with why? Don’t you see that we are alone. That it is impossible for there to be a God? The believer responded and said. Of course not.

Now after much arguing over the points of science, and philosophy. It became apparent that it didn’t seem to matter how much since or logic was used on either side, neither one was willing to back down.

So finally the atheist stopped in mid sentence, and stated that it didn’t matter how much arguing they did, it wasn’t going to change either of there opinions because they were looking at the subject in two entirely different ways.

The atheist pulled a pencil out of his pocket, and set it on the table. He said let me illustrate my point. You would say that it was Gods will that I had a pencil, and through His power, I can choose to push it off of the table. And even though it was done with my own power, it was His Will that allowed it to happen.

Now I would say that I had the pencil out of chance. I decided to use my own power, and on my own I chose to push the pencil off of the table to prove a point.

So the Believer thinks for a second, and says to the atheist. You presume to know what I think. You use a simple thought, and state it, as if it proves your point. Lets take a moment, and look at this another way.

What color would you say the sky is. The atheist looks up, and says that the sky is blue. The believer then asks him why he says that. The atheist says because I can look up with my own eyes, and see that it is so.

OK so you say the sky is blue because you can see it. Yet isn’t color only the a presentable of fracturing light? Isn’t color only seen through how it is perceived? Isn’t color the aspect of things that is caused by differing qualities of light being reflected or emitted by them. So to see color you have to have light. When light shines on an object some colors bounce off the object, and others are absorbed by it. Our eyes only see the colors that are bounced off or reflected. To see light you must have light. To see faith you must have faith.

But in either case what is color to one who is color blind?

The atheist responds and asks. Are you saying that because I do not have faith I can never see God. The believer tells him that isn’t exactly right. But as long as you refuse to see light you will never see color.

The atheist then responds with another question. You said that the color blind can not see color. Are you saying that I am flawed, and it is my flaws that make it where I can not see God. Are you saying that God designed me to not see Him?

So the believe says lets take one thing at a time. You asked if you are flawed. Then the atheist responds well aren’t we all. So the believer asks, how do you know you are flawed? The atheist responds with the answer - well no body is perfect.


The believer then asks how do you know. By what standard are you going by?

You see in your example of the pencil you said it was you, and with your own power, you made the pencil move. You had the power. But how did you get the power in the first place. How do you know wither or not you are not flawed? How do you know whether or not you have power?

It is through our faith that the flawed, can to begin to remove the flaws, and be restored day by day to what we were always meant to be.

At the end of this parable I stopped and I answered the teachers question like this.

In other words we do not fight with an atheist, because how can one show color to the color blind. All we can do is hope that one day that through truth the light will shine in to his closed eyes, and he can choose to one day see the beauty of Our One True God.

Can two walk together if they do not agree. Part 2

Now lets take at look at language.

In the context of language in Amos 3:3 all we really need to focus on is one word. Often translated as agree in many of our translations. In Hebrew it is the Word yaw-ad.

It is strong s number H3259
יעד
yâ‛ad
yaw-ad'
A primitive root; to fix upon (by agreement or appointment); by implication to meet (at a stated time), to summon (to trial), to direct (in a certain quarter or position), to engage (for marriage): - agree, (make an) appoint (-ment, a time), assemble (selves), betroth, gather (selves, together), meet (together), set (a time).

The Theological wordbook says that it means appoint, betroth, assemble, meet, set. Its derivatives are (eda) congregation, (moed) appointed place, (moad) place of assembly, and (muada) cities appointed. The meanings of this root and all the words that it is tied to would take a day to write out. So lets move on.

Through this we can see that the meaning and implication of this word is not for two men to agree on a theological statement. But to agree at an appointed time or place. In other words how can two meet if they do not set an appointed time or place. How can a prophet speak on behalf of God without having first met Him and received His counsel. How can a people worship and meet with God without having meet Him and revived His counsel in Hist times, and place?

From the context before we can see that Amos is not speaking of simply two men agreeing. But God and man meeting at Gods appointed times and places. Receiving Gods counsel IN Gods way.

It is my beliefs that this verse would be better translated as “Would two walk together, without having met?” When looking at the context it is hard to derive a meaning of division.
It seems to be speaking of a spirit of unity. Man recognizing Gods appointed times, and places and meeting with Him at the Times God has set forth. Having a relationship with God in Gods way. Meeting with God to truly worship Him in His way.

This verse does not seem to me, to be about men fighting, attacking, and splitting over theological differences. But our God asking us to seek Him, and His ways. To set aside our own ways and accompany Him in His.

1Jn 3:1 See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God! For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved ones, now we are children of God. And it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1Jn 3:3 And everyone having this expectation in Him cleanses himself, as He is clean.

It is time that we stop trying to justify our behavior with Scripture and start learning to follow the Word of God. We must stop trying to openly cause rebellion, and begin to build the community that our God has asked us to to be. In short we must learn to agree to disagree on those things that are simply beyond the fullness of our understanding, and begin to come together in unity weather we agree on every detail or not. We must begin making community one of our priorities, rather than simply looking for excuses as to why we can avoid it.

As we go forth and test these new ideas in Scripture let us pray that our Father gives us His Spirit of wisdom, understanding, and truth. So we may see and walk as our Messiah walked, and be true disciples in the Name of Yeshua (Jesus).  May we pray for eyes to see, ears to hear, and hearts to change for the glory of our God

Can two walk together if they do not agree. Part 1

I have had this phrase uttered to me oh so many times by those who would advocate separating from those who do not agree with there theologies . But this raises some questions. Why would God tell us not to walk with those of differing opinions, then give us so many mysteries? Why would God tell us to follow a path of division when showing us a path of unity? Why give us the living example of our Messiah walking, and teaching all who wished to learn, and then say to not walk with them?

I must be clear, in this article it is not my intent to speak against others. I am not speaking of two who are following a different or no God or Gods. I am speaking about those who claim a faith in the One True God, and dived over minor issues or what the Word of God calls mysteries. Those walking together and then using Scriptures like Amos 3:3 to justify attacking and dividing communities.

We must understand that we are not called to divide but to unite. The Word will divide, our King will judge, and as such these are not our domain. We are called to walk in the world and through the light of Heaven show it the path to change. But this is not what this article is addressing. It is my hope that through this article we can address a very serious issue infecting our communities. Men misusing Scripture to cause division among brothers in the name of mysteries.

It has always bothered me how this verse could seem to say that if everyone does not agree with everything, then they should separate. It must be said that this idea seems to fit on the surface. That is until you dig a little deeper, and see that there are so many mysteries in Scripture.

So what are some of these dividing mysteries?

Godliness.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.


unity through union (two or more becoming one)

Eph 5:28 In this way husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but feeds and cherishes it, as also the Master does the assembly.
Eph 5:30 Because we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
Eph 5:31 “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
Eph 5:32 This mystery is great, but I speak concerning Messiah and the assembly.

Inclusion of the gentiles

Eph 3:3 how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote before in few words,
Eph 3:4 whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;
Eph 3:5 which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 to wit, that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs, and fellow-members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,


glorified bodies.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Not to mention many others. It is for us to seek out these mysteries, and to try to understand them. Not divide over our opinions of them. We all to often become very dogmatic about things that the Scriptures themselves speak of as mysteries. Yet we have no problem being loose on the things Scripture is very clear on. We even justify not doing the clear commandments and instructions of God in order to come together, or simply appease our flesh. Yet we have no problem destroying relationships, assemblies, and attacking our brothers and sisters over our opinions to what the Word of God often calls mysteries.

We do not know the clear answer to many of these passages because we are not yet at the end of the Story, not all has been revealed. We believe we have the answers, and we have strong opinions on many of the mysteries. Yet we do not really take in account that the other side of the issue has some valid points as well. Even if we do not agree with them. We have to at least recognize there point's and listen to there side. Other wise how could we expect them to listen to ours?

Through this we must ask ourselves if we really have to know all the answers? If we do actually think we know all of the answers, then what are we depending on? Our Knowledge, and capabilities, or God? Do we have to know, to trust fully in God's promises. Do we have to know and agree on everything in order to be unified? As it is said, "this mystery" is not yet fully revealed. So how can we ever hope to come together as the unified Body of Messiah if we separate over so many mysteries that have not been fully revealed?

Are we to be so dogmatic about our opinions of mysteries that we break apart unities, bonds, and relationships? Is this the work of a disciple?

Can two walk together if they do not agree?

Rom 8:28 And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose.

Is the work of a disciple one of division and chaos. Or one of Faith and learning through unity? It is my opinion that it is not a disciples job to attack and tear down but to build up in love

Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Amos 3:3 seems to be very clear to so many who read it. Many take it as a call for division. But is that what it is saying?

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

This verse if read out of the context of History, Language, and the Scriptures surrounding it seems to say that we have to agree in our theologies in order to walk together. So by comparison if we cannot agree then we should separate. So lets begin our search by digging into the context of History.

Who was Amos, and what is he talking about?

Amos was of course a prophet of our God. His name actually would be translated as burden - bearer. His name comes form the Hebrew Amas which means to lift a burden – to carry. Amos was a businessman – farmer from Judah who was called to deliver a message of condemnation and judgment to the northern Kingdom, Israel. He tells us nothing about his family or lineage, but does give us a lot of information about his times. His geographical, chronological, and cultural settings.

His occupation, he says was a shepherd in Amos 1:1. But the word here is the Hebrew word noqed. This word suggests something a bit more than a mere watcher and tender of Sheep. The only other occurrence of this word is found in 2 Kings 3:4. It is used to describe Mesha, king of Moab. So most likely he was a sheep merchant, and probably pretty wealthy. In other words not a peasant. The Prophet also describes himself as a dresser of sycamore-fig trees. The Hebrew term used in Amos 7:14 is boles, a word which probably refers to the nipping or slitting of fruit in order to make it edible. So it seems that Amos was an fig cultivator, as well as a successful dealer of sheep.

Amos was in the time of King Uzziah of Judah (790 – 739 BCE) and King Jeroboam II of Israel (793 – 753 BCE) two years before a great earthquake, a cataclysm, so massive that it was recalled 240 years later by the Prophet Zechariah in Zech 14:15. This earthquake is known to have occurred around 760 BCE. That would place the events of Amos at around 762 BCE.

Amos was born in Tekoa near Jerusalem in the Southern Kingdom of Judah. Amos being from the Southern Kingdom was astutely aware of the idolatrous practices that was added to the worship of the northern kingdom by King Jeroboam in order to keep the people from returning to Jerusalem for worship. This was an attempt to keep the people in Israel and not returning to Judah.

Through this the people had made there practices above that of God. It was no longer about Gods appointed times and places but there own. Amos found it necessary to preach against idolatry (even idolatry in the name of the one true God), immorality (that which is against Gods Laws of morality not mans), corruption, and terrible social injustice.

At this time both the Northern and southern kingdoms were enjoying great prosperity. This made the crimes of social injustice stand out all the more clear. In the portion of Scripture that we get the a fore mentioned passage of Amos 3:3, Amos condemns the wealthy Israelite s for bribery, slavery, and exploitation of the poor. He also rails against there sexual, and religious immorality. He comes against there newly appointed times and places of worship.

Unfortunately, the unusual prosperity brought a collapse of moral standards. Ignored were the great ideals and commandments of God's Holy Word to help the poor, and to practice justice and loving kindness. The rich oppressed the poor; might was right; it was an age of corruption. Hand in hand with this degeneration of the morals of the people went increased idolatry. People built many altars on mountains to serve the Canaanite gods, the Baal and Ashtarte. The Golden Calves, which the first Jeroboam set up in the north and south of the country to turn the people away from the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, were worshiped more than before and the teachings of God and the holy commandments were viewed with contempt.

Amos recalls that it was our God who saved them from there enemies and enabled them to inhabit the promised land. He recalls that God gave them Nazirites and prophets to guide them. But Israel only corrupted or disregarded its religious leaders. They not only disregarded the true Leaders and instructors that God sent but they created there own in order to replace them. As a consequence, the lord will exact punishment that no one will be able to escape from.

Amos then warns the people that any misfortune that comes to them will be sent by God. He begs them to listen to his prophecy. Which they do not do.


Now that we have a background for Amos and a context for the times lets look at a few of the things we learned.

Amos was not a professional man of God.

Amos was from Judah and knew the correct times and places for worship.

Israel had abandoned many of the appointed times and places in place of there own.

And although the kingdom of Israel was in a time of prosperity they were morally corrupt.

So from the context of history, does the idea of judging and causing division between brothers due to theological differences fit? If we only look at the context of History and Scripture we could almost make a case for it, right? I mean this was a layman prophet that was sharing a prophecy of judgment, and warning. So it really wouldn’t be to far of a reach, right? But in order to make this leap we would have to ignore the fact that Amos is speaking of a relationship between God and man, and not relationships between men. But even this could be seen as a relationship between Judah and Israel. So lets dig a little deeper. In the next article we will address the context of language and see if this idea of division could actually fit.

As we go forth and test these new ideas in Scripture let us pray that our Father gives us His Spirit of wisdom, understanding, and truth. So we may see and walk as our Messiah walked, and be true disciples in the Name of Yeshua (Jesus).  May we pray for eyes to see, ears to hear, and hearts to change for the glory of our God